Wiki vs. Ning

[Phil Collins]

We have a wiki we created to keep discussion around the use of NWEA assessments in Illinois but it really never took off. I'd like to hear the thoughts of others regarding the wiki vs. ning topic so we can determine how to move forward.

[Jessica]

Aha!
Thank you, now I understand much better what social networks can do that wikis can't. I'm a big wiki fan, but I'm not much of a social being. I can see where that sense of conversation could make a difference for many people, particularly teens, the most social of beings.

I think too that some people are intimidated away from changning a wiki. Even though it isn't permanent, it looks like it is! Social networks might be less intimidating and encourage greater participation among students.

[Tom Hitt]

I recently had a meeting with some ed peers, and we discussed the utility of Wikis for classwork (students using a wiki for a project). In this regard, it seems like a good idea- most of what I've read about wikis makes it sound like an ideal place for business projects. When it comes to straight head-on discussions though, I agree with Meri - I prefer this type of forum, where I can review previous comments and get notices that new posts are up.

[Steve Hargadon]

Great discussion, and great comments.

I've been an avid wiki user for a few years now, and have built some wikis that I would consider "successful" in accomplishing something good (www.supportblogging.com, www.k12opensource.com, hopefully www.classroom20wiki.com). I've also built MANY that never took off. :)

But even feeling myself to be a "wiki warrior," it took me over a year to be brave enough to actually edit one after I saw what they were, and they just aren't that easy to learn. Not rocket science, but nowhere near as intuitive as coming into a Ning network.

The very structure of a wiki is also not really great for *discussions.* It's superb for 1) quickly putting up web content without needing a special program, and without needing to conform to the date construct of blogs; 2) collaboratively building websites; and 3) collaboratively building web pages (a la wikipedia). It's the third where the "neutral point of view" and others editing your content make it a pretty sophisticated experience. There is the discussion page feature of a wiki, which is underused, but even then not built to really have the focus be on the discussion--the focus is on the edited page.

I'm biased (I consult for Ning), but I think Ning is unique in its ability to facilitate engaged dialog, and I think this is why it is seeing such success in education--to the surprise of many who felt that MySpace and Facebook defined social networking. Really, social networking is just the aggregation of Web 2.0 technologies that help build communities, and Ning has extended the understanding of how powerful that can be.

Ning has also announced that soon there will be a wiki feature built into Ning networks. I'm waiting for more information, but that should be really fun when it arrives.

Great question, Phil.

[Meg Ormiston]

How about a Wiki in Ning?
Soon Ning will also have a wiki (next few weeks)! I have used the ning network when I taught my tech camps in Illinois last summer, this summer I will teach my tech camp using NING and I am soooooo excited. I really need a wiki also, so I am watching the Ning wiki information wth careful interest. This is my work in progresss getting ready for summer 2008! http://techcamp.ning.com/

[Mike Romard]

I have also found Nings and Wikis to be fly-by-night things - folks are sporatic in their appearances. It was great to hear Meri Walker using it correctly with her tracking of the comments. Good show.

Thinking aloud here - is there a way to run RSS feeds on wikis or Nings?

Mike

[Mike Romard]

Bah! Just figured out how to add an RSS feed from a Ning. It was right there in front of my face. *sigh*

That tiny orange and white wave icon in the far left corner.

[Steve Mackenzie]

wikis inside Ning - Perfectamondo!!

[meri walker]

My feeling, too, Steve. And I'm interested in what makes you say this... What is it that's so valuable about the way wikis work ... that's different from what we're doing in nings... that makes putting a wiki inside a ning perfect?

What new results are you imagining you'll get that you're not getting now? Or maybe getting in a less than optimal way?

And, since we're both participating in that wild and crazy experiment at LearnHub, I'm also wondering what you're finding distinct about THAT approach. For me, personally, LearnHub is a whole 'nuther kind of campfire than either a wiki or a ning... fascinating...and I'm really trying to get my mind wrapped around the THREE different ways to collaborate with others.

Hearing your perspective would be helpful to me...

This seems like a crucial question, actually... and I'd like to hear more about your experience.

[Steve Mackenzie]

Hi Meri,

I commend you on your community spirit - keeping at least three camp fires burning.

Ning is just the business - Aesthetically and navigationally they have done a damn fine job. Good design - even though you can customize yourself there is a good basic structure.

Someone previously must have said something like "you don't notice good design", that is how i feel about ning - it just feels right. The ability to pack in resources in one place is another great feature, to bring in RSS feeds that fit straight in - Wow THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

So we can blog and discuss easily, build resources easily. For students and instructors all in one place - great. The only thing missing is a place to produce collaborative documents i.e a wiki. This will save having to get a separate wikispaces (or whatever) account, which further complicates delivery of lessons. I just hope that it is a good product, but i think it will be Ok, because of the rest of the Ning infrastructure. I think Steve Hargadon captured nicely what wikis are good for - basically for a specific purpose. they are not naturally built for dialogue.

Ning is a Home, a basecamp, a focal point - we may need to go outside and do other things, but this is where we can draw all the knowledge together and students can learn informally and incidentally off each other.

With Regard LearnHub - I think the learnHub team are trying to build something good. I am not sure yet what it is trying to do differently to ning, i will think about this more some other time. it has more of an individualistic feel about it - a mixture for teachers to promote their wares and for students to choose their course or test in a great big marketplace.

cheers Steve

[meri walker]

Interesting post Adam Kosh just made about all this at the LearnHub discussion, Steve. You may find it interesting. Here's a direct link to that discussion in case others are interested.

http://learnhub.com/lesson/page/862-wikis-vs-nings-which-is-better-..."Parallel conversation at LearnHub.

The LearnHub architecture seems to be based on different assumptions about what social learning is and how it needs to be supported....at least that's my read of what Adam and John Phillip are saying, so far.

[meri walker]

The developers at LearnHub seem to be building based on a different set of assumptions about what social learning is and how it needs to be supported. At least that's my read of what Adam Kosh and John Phillip Green have been sharing so far.

You might be interested in reading Adam's most recent post at LH ... I'm carrying this conversation back and forth between these two spaces because I want to learn from both camps.

Here's a direct link to the conversation going on at http://learnhub.com/lesson/page/862-wikis-vs-nings-which-is-better-..."">LearnHub.

[meri walker]

I share your feelings about the way things look and work here, Steve. And I have a stronger experience of having a personal - and a shared - "base camp," as you say. And it is all about informal learning here. Which has always been the most important part of learning for me. Now that we've got most of the content online, the informal engagement with it is everything...

Adam Kosh just posted at LearnHub about his vision of the differences between what they're trying to develop with LH and what he thinks is going on in Nings. You might find it interesting. So might others who are reading here. I'm going to create a shortened URL to link directly to it below:

LEARNHUB conversation.